Go! Smell Prop 8

Posted on November 7th, 2008 by taylorblue

So, the election was won by Barack Obama…I am so happy! And even in Canada we waited by our TV sets for the news. I had written a lot about the election so I was kind of invested in the result.

The only really sad thing is that Prop 8 was passed. This means that all marriages in the state of California would be limited to men and women only. Ellen Degeneres and Portia DeRossi just got married in August and because of this their marriage will become null and void.

I have to admit that a year ago if I would have heard this I would have cheered. I didn’t agree with lesbians and gays being able to be married. I thought it was gross really. Why can’t only men and women get married and the gays and lesbians just forget it.

But a funny thing happened. I got to know a couple of lesbians and gays through their blogs. And now even one of my best blogging friends is gay. He really showed me that they are human like anyone else. Why can’t he have the right to marry his partner? They love each other and they want to be able to show each other that love.

For a country that has gone so far in being open-minded and electing a black President, why can’t they be open-minded and let people get married to the people they love?

I know I am just asking for it, but I’ve been in a heated discussion on my own blog about this exact topic. So would you vote yes or no on Prop 8 if you had a chance? (Yes being that you don’t agree with same sex marriages, and no that you do agree with same sex marriages.)


34 Responses to “Go! Smell Prop 8”

  1. TB,

    Good for you for bringing this up. As some know, I am in process regarding this issue. I have always had gay friends and have been a Christian. My beliefs, even a couple of months ago, was that homosexual behavior was a sin. Well, that didn’t sit right with what I felt, saw and was taught in the church and what I thought to be true at the time. So, I started researching and am in the middle of the process. I’m not satisfied so far with what the church uses as arguments against it, nor have I satisfied arguments against it. I don’t believe in discrimination, but I will vote for my values. As a result, I did not want to make a hasty decision and was stressing myself out. This is going to take me some time, so I decided not to vote on the issue at all which I do if I don’t understand or am really undecided. I know that I didn’t believe and know that information from both sides were filled with incorrect information. Finding the truth was difficult to find.

    CC

  2. Oh, I forgot, I have relatives who are gay. I don’t think of them as gay first that is a long way down the list of descriptors. I think of them as ______ my friend, my relative…

    Where is Jim? He has been MIA for a while. Don’t tell him, but I kinda miss him around here.

  3. Svasti says:

    TC, CC – I’m so glad you’ve both been able to open your minds and hearts to people who are, well, let’s face it… just like… other people. I mean, sure they like different things in their bedrooms/private lives, but I know plenty of heterosexual people who like to do much weirder and kinkier things!! Or the same. Or whatever!

    I’ve always considered myself to be multi-sexual. My preference is men, but that’s not always how I’ve played things. And honestly, this stuff is just another form of racism/bigotry etc… people being afraid of what they don’t understand. And other people in positions of power thinking its okay to tell others whether their personal life is legal or not.

    I have many, many gay friends and that’s one of the issues they’ve always faced – just being able to legally support/take care of their long term partners they way they’d like. Not leaving any ambiguity in the matter. And ofcourse, being able to say “this is my husband/wife”.

    And… there’s no logical reason why they shouldn’t be able to.

    I imagine and hope that there are more legal appeals to come. Does anyone know if Prop 8 has shut down further appeals or not? Its such a shame that after a wonderful win with Obama, Prop 8 had to succeed.

    • Taylor Blue says:

      I know LA had a huge thing going on last night because of it…I hope they don’t stop…they deserve it!! :)

    • Svasti~

      The L.A. thing was partly due to the fact that they had not yet conceded that Proposition 8 passed. They are now seeking legal means to overturn it due to the Supreme court originally legalizing gay marriage.

      I don’t think that it is a matter of opening up my mind or my heart. I think my heart and mind have been open, but based on religious reason’s I couldn’t tell them I agreed. However, that did not change our friendship or our discussions. Some I became friends with before them “coming out,” “others I knew were, but they didn’t,” and some I already knew. They are my family because of birth and my friends are my friends because of who they are. We just agree to disagree.

      However, within the past couple of years, more of my friends have “come out,” finally. And, what the church taught was not matching what I was seeing, feeling or thinking, so I recently began to look and began questioning things that I thought were satisfied. Now, I am in the middle of actively seeking for my own faith and conviction. I want to be able to discuss logically my convictions which are in process right now. I’ve always been open to other information just as I am about almost everything. However, I got stuck with this issue because I couldn’t answer my own questions to my satisfaction. Sometimes, it would be easier to be a “sheeple.” Baa-baa. (But, I couldn’t live with myself.)

      CC

      • Svasti says:

        That’s what I like about you CC. The very fact that you do question and you don’t just stick with what you’re told.

        I didn’t mean ‘open your mind and heart’ in any particular way. More of an analogy than anything. But in that you did search and question, that is very much opening your mind.

        I think its brilliant that you do so, and that’s what I meant. Many people don’t…

      • Now, the protests such as last night are about the outcome. At one point, they were in front of a Morman church, and the church memebers verbally assaulted and physically attack a few people removing “Yes on 8″ signs. It is now being investigated as a hate crime due to the words used.

    • One of my gay friends, when I told him I was sorry about Proposition 8 passing. I may disagree or agree with something, but when someone with an opposing position is that emotionally invested I do feel for them. I still am not sure about it, but I really dislike the spin the church put on it because it wasn’t true. But, on the other side neither was what the oppostion was saying. But, the church put a much bigger spin on it.

      Anyway, my friend told me that Obama winning was more important than Proposition 8 not passing, but the battle isn’t over. Basically, if he had to choose between the two, Obama was the most important although 8 would have been good too.

  4. Jim says:

    Hi TB,

    Same sex marriage? Does society still see this as ‘ alternative’?

    A shame really as I thought it was widely accepted anyway – two loving people, what’s the problem?

  5. Kathleen says:

    I would vote no. I know nothing about statistics. Perhaps there are none, but I would think that same sex marriages are quite successful.

    • Kathleen,

      They actually have research now on children raised in a same-sex marriage and they are finding that they do quite well developmentally in a loving two parent home regardless of gender. Which contradicts, the churches studies, that really did not follow good research guidelines, that children don’t do well in same-sex marriages.

      CC

  6. earthmother,

    To me the perceived threat, is to traditional family values. The church and everyone else tend to simplify issues into all good or all bad, making the world simple into black and white. This is right and this is wrong. If you read my comment, I realize that in terms of my Christian faith that I am finding that what is taught is gray.

    I recently wrote a post called GO! See the in the church which pretty much states my beliefs and observations regarding homosexuality.

    CC

    • earthmother says:

      What are “traditional family values”?

      Which ones do Bob and his husband Nick, or Sarah and her wife Judy, threaten to destroy?

      • “Marriage is between a man and a woman.” By the way, if you read my comment above you know that I am in the process of sorting this issue out, so I am telling you what the “Protestant chuch” would say.

      • Svasti says:

        That’s the thing that’s always bothered me. Says who? Who gets to say that marriage is between a man and a women? Simply because that’s how it began? If we left science just the way it began we wouldn’t be typing these messages now. If we left women’s rights the way they were, then we wouldn’t be voting, having careers or earning our own money. If we left racism the way it was, you wouldn’t have Barack Obama even trying to be president.

        This seems to be an old piece of rhetoric that some religions and people still believe has some merit? Why? Because its always been that way?

        I just don’t understand that statement. There’s no logic to defend that position…

      • Taylor Blue says:

        You know I was thinking…church’s have been tolerant of other things that happen…like sex before marriage. It says you aren’t supposed to do that either in the Bible but I have to say there are probably 90% of us that have done it. So why can’t they tolerate this? And it also says that God loves everyone…and this is the gays and lesbians included too. It makes me mad that they put up with some things and not others.

      • TB,

        You already know that I wholeheartedly agree with you. :-)

        Svasti,

        What I am finding is that there are statements that infer that marriage is between a man and a woman. However, I could not find any verse that defines it as such. I still need to sort this out between my faith, what I see and know and Scripture. I am getting there. Actually, there is a spin and to me a misinterpretation of the Bible as the reasons for discrimination with racism, the treatment of women and slavery. There are verses for all of these issues that imply that it is “wrong,” but that is not the way I read it. I’m actually trying to go back to the original Greek text. I think, think that the church twists some things to justify their prejudice which just angers me to no end. But, my anger isn’t just at the church because there are a lot of non-religious/spiritual people that have the same prejuidice.

        CC

      • Taylor Blue says:

        CC thanks.. :)

        It’s just that when people get angry about things like this they throw the church in. So why don’t I throw in how tolerable the church really is.. :)

  7. Some questions I have;

    Why is it anybodies business but the people involved?

    Do they need a sanctioned marriage, for acceptance, recognition (if so from whom) or for tax reasons?

    Who takes the lid off the pickle jar in the lesbian marriage? (sorry the last one may be seen as a cheap shot but its valid none the same)

    • Taylor Blue says:

      My answers ..

      It really isn’t anyone’s business..that’s the point…why make a huge deal about it and just pass it that they can get married.

      They want a marriage just like anyone of us want marriage…to show how much we love each other…and for the tax reasons.

      And I suppose…they might take turns taking the pickle out of the pickle jar.. :)

    • earthmother says:

      Why is it anybodies business but the people involved?

      Can I get a great big “AMEN” to that? Praise Jesus, Elvis and Buddha!

      The sad truth, Gareth, is that even if a same gender couple were to be married in one of the two states that affords them the privilege, the IRS and Social Security folks still consider them to be complete strangers. Legal marriage or not, theirs doesn’t count. Most of the financial benefits one gets from marriage are federal.

      Hmmm, don’t know about the pickle jar, but I suspect a lesbian marriage doesn’t look a whole lot different from one between a man and a woman. Well, except they keep the toilet seat down all the time and they get to borrow one another’s clothes. ; )

      • GIT,

        What earthmother says about Federal benefits is true. There are also implications regarding healthcare benefits, healthcare choices, child custody, death benefits etc..

        Also, I understand that when it comes to values that any religious belief holds, they will want to ensure that, if they have a choice, that they will try to make voting decisions based upon their belief system. They would want to insure that they are doing “God’s” will. That is what we all do…we vote based on our morals, values and beliefs. That is why they make it their business. Remember, I am just speaking from what I know to be the “church” answer and I am not stating my beliefs because I still need to figure it out for myself between the Bible, what I see, what I know, how I feel and be comfortable with being able to state the reason for my beliefs. Right now, I can state both sides, but do not feel convicted one way or the other. I am leaning toward one side, but I have more research to do.

        CC

  8. JacquelineFromCanada says:

    second class citizens. no, it couldn’t be, we’re so beyond all that, it’s preposterous and archaic. simply prehistoric. right?
    here’s what melissa etheridge had to say:

    “Okay. So Prop 8 passed. Alright, I get it. 51% of you think that I am a second class citizen. Alright then. So my wife, uh I mean, roommate? Girlfriend? Special lady friend? You are gonna have to help me here because I am not sure what to call her now. Anyways, she and I are not allowed the same right under the state constitution as any other citizen. Okay, so I am taking that to mean I do not have to pay my state taxes because I am not a full citizen. I mean that would just be wrong, to make someone pay taxes and not give them the same rights, sounds sort of like that taxation without representation thing from the history books.”

    • Lib says:

      Raa, I couldn’t have put it better myself Jacqueline.

      The whole prop 8 thing is preposterous but above all, utterly disappointing. And I thought we had come so far.

      Its the last kind of prejudice that’s just hanging on in there by the very few but powerful minority, and the saddest thing about this is having to try and explain this to future generations.

      And I’m sure that, disappointingly, they too will be thinking ‘but we came so far’.

  9. MikeC says:

    I would vote NO for it. And why not let everyone endure the same pain of marriage like every other married couple.

    Only joking of course. Everyone deserves to get the same benefits regardless of sexual preference. It’s only fair and balance. I really wish church and state would stand separate from one another.

  10. A/C says:

    Ok Hold the phone!

    A few points…..

    One Agree with GIT its really no bodies business….

    Two… These PEOPLE.. hmmmm… Why These People? Gays and Lesbians are generally no different to anyone else… the only difference is the lifestyle….. I am surprised by a few of the comments… the are human beings, well what else would they be, you wouldnt expect a perosn with a mental illness to be from Mars or a person borm without a limb to come from venus. it reminds me so much of the how African people were seen not that long ago, Human rights are human Rights.

    Three..
    “Marriage” is a religion/church based instituttion.. If the Institution does not allow it, then quite frankly why would you bother.
    A Joining Ceremony, a Union Service or similar which involves no religion would be far more appropriate.
    A Legally recognised Union between 2 people regardless of Gender, sexuality etc should be accepted and really should not be an issue. This should be an alternative for all persons not wanting to participate in the Church based institution.

    This is the 21st century isnt it…

    I would vote NO to this Prop 8.

    No person regardless of who they are, what position they hold, etc has the right to imposse their own prejudices on another.

    To Marry (in the general sense) or not to should be the right of any person. It is a decision which should be made by those involved and nobody else.
    Get real People…

    This whole thing is just plain wrong… Discrimination abounds… Sad, What does it matter really, and whose business is it anyway…

  11. I’m all for same sex marriages..so I guess that means I would vote no???? Any persons in a loving a caring relationship should have the option to marry if they please

  12. I just came across this tonight, I thought it might be interesting. It is an Australian study.

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